Comments on: A few thoughts on Chicago’s offense

By: RT

RT — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:31:24 +0000

Here’s my problem with these stats guys saying, “You’re wrong! You’re all voting the wrong way.” The MVP award has no clearly defined parameters. It’s like a “Sexiest Person of the Year” award – there is no criteria for how you define “sexy” so it would be stupid for one group of people to say, “You’re defining ‘sexy’ the wrong way, and therefore you’re voting for the wrong person.” Idiots.

“Most Valuable” has no absolute meaning – it means different things to different people. Today Hollinger is calling Rose-for-MVP “a mistake” and “bad voting” – essentially he is saying that his definition of “Most Valuable” is the only right definition. (The guy probably has a stat for “sexy” too.)

There can be no genuine debate about who should be MVP without a common definition of “Most Valuable.” For that reason, I wish the media and bloggers would just acknowledge and accept the subjectivity of the award – because it’s unlikely that the NBA will ever establish a definition.

By: Savage

Savage — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:32:44 +0000

@Dan the teams record always comes into consideration for the MVP award. Come on man, I hate to be too critical but that is pretty rudimentary stuff.

By: inkybreath

inkybreath — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:54:53 +0000

And, for the LeBronnners out there. Rose is like an ace pitcher, aka stopper, in that THE BULLS HAVE NOT LOST THREE GAMES IN A ROW ALL YEAR! The Heat had two four game losing streaks and a three game losing streak. Now, this is certainly a bit of selective statistification, but still, I think it has some merit.

By: inkybreath

inkybreath — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:51:21 +0000

I also want to keep throwing in the fact that Rose had to orchestrate with a whole new team of players, on top of the injuries. This also works in Thibs favor for coach of the year, big time.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:41:40 +0000

Interesting that nobody points out that LeBron is number 2 on that list of scoring in the clutch and is significantly ahead of Rose in most other categories but assists.But that’s not the point.

LeBatard’s article and his reasoning was atrocious, yes, but that doesn’t mean he’s not correct about some things. It seems from the tone of the points made here (and while I’m a Bulls fan, I’m not a regular reader of this site so forgive me) that everyone thinks that Rose is the MVP and the onus is on others to prove otherwise. That’s not how it works. If your criteria is that the best player on the best team should win the award, that’s fine. Then Rose is absolutely your guy. But when you say that things like leadership and knowing how to win are important attributes for an MVP, then look at the Bulls record and Rose as their best player, then just assume that “Rose + leadership/knowing how to win = Bulls with best record”, that’s a flawed argument.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, how do we know it’s Rose’s leadership or intangibles are what is making the Bulls team win? How do you quantify that? How do we know it’s not the coaching or the scheme? So filling in any gaps in the “tangibles” with those things sounds like a matter of convenience. Or even like Matt McHale said, just part of a narrative.

By: Savage

Savage — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:01:12 +0000

It all makes me smile because I think Rose will win the MVP easily this year as he should. That will be the factor that proves most in the media and elsewhere pay little attention to these analysts’ baseless criticisms of a true NBA superstar. Sure give all the team success to the other All-stars on the team, oh wait there are none this year at least. Credit someone else for carrying the team while Boozer and Noah were out, oh wait it was clear Rose was the best performer on the team during those periods. D Rose better clear off his mantel he has an MVP award that is going to take up some space!

By: Hanseatico

Hanseatico — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:06:10 +0000

@c4 – we picked one of the best DRose MVP arguments – would be nice to have the updated numbers for Rose’s PPP allowed.
@Matt McHale – maybe you can get those stats – and throw it on haters face…

By: The Point Forward » Posts Court Vision: The latest around the league «

The Point Forward » Posts Court Vision: The latest around the league « — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:48:17 +0000

[...] At By the Horns, Matt McHale correctly points out that the Bulls’ offense isn’t quite so dismal these days — a point in [...]

By: Mark S.

Mark S. — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:23:58 +0000

One point that LeBatard and other columnists have recently use in Rose “not-an-MVP” type columns is his defense, or “lack-thereof”. LeBatard notes that, “The Bulls’ defense is best in the league; Rose might be that defense’s least important piece.”

Essentially, we’re seeing arguments that when Rose leaves the floor, the Bulls defense improves. But the writers just leave it at that. They don’t care to note that when Rose leaves the floor and the second unit enters, the second unit is also playing against a second unit. We have a great defensive scheme that can shut down #1 offenses, OF COURSE they are going to be able to shut down #2′s.

Rose isn’t making an All-NBA Defensive team anytime soon, but he also isn’t Kyle Korver on D. The best counter to arguments that Rose is a poor defender are his games against opposing elite PG’s and how often he blocks/alters shots.

Lastly, if you’re leading your team offensively and constantly pushing the ball, the chances that you’re going to be an All-NBA Defender are pretty minimal.

How many times has a player been Top-10 in PPG/APG and made the All-NBA Defensive team? Anyone know?

By: Tae

Tae — Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:07:08 +0000

According to Wilbon, Le Batard is a baseball guy and we all know baseball guys and statistics…doesn’t exactly work the same in basketball.